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Post Info TOPIC: Foam Bore Cleaners?


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Foam Bore Cleaners?
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Are they worth it? Do they hurt accuracy after repeated use?



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I've tried a couple of brands, Wipe-Out and another one, a Gunslick product I think. Can't say that I was thrilled with either one, mostly for the mess it made. I ended up buying a couple of rubber stoppers to stick in the barrel ends to keep the foam from running all over the bench. I think they do a better job of copper removal than regular bore solvents, but I don't think they're any better than Eliminator. They claim to not hurt the bore so you can leave it in overnight so I wouldn't imagine they'd be any worse than other solvents for bore life.


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I have used them since they first came out. I clean my barrel my usual way first (probably not necessary) and then I foam the barrel and keeping it tipped down slightly, this keeps is from getting back into the action, let it sit all night. There is always more that the foam gets that I somehow couldn't with my regular brushing and patching.

It's been a real handy thing to use after a boresnake in the field too. Just let it sit a few mins and run the snake back in again.

I haven't found anything said by anyone that there is anything in them that will harm your barrel or stock. I like them!! Denny


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Well I have been using both Wipe Out and Eliminator and like both. I leave my barrel slightly sloped to drain out the front unto an old plate and can see how well the chemical is performing by the color that drips out. With Wipe Out, I put a kleenex in the chamber and that seems to be enough to stop it from leaking all over the rest of the metal. Also, I clean up any extra that comes out of the gas port immediately. I think Wipe Out is stronger and works faster on copper. Just seems to be true without any good proof.

I also like the bore snakes for field use.

One concern is not what the cleaners do but how to bring the bore back to where it was before with a bullet coating treatment. So far I have not had any negative issues but wonder how long it takes to get the bore coated again and how to best coat it. I am going to try an emulsion of bullet lubricant, WS2 for example, in alcohol and let it dry in the bore before I shoot. That is as opposed to just shooting coated bullets until the bore is back to normal.

Any ideas on this?

Jon

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Jon, I use moly coating on my 22-250 bullets and before shooting I prep the bore with Cabela's Moly Bore Prep. It's basically moly powder suspended in an oil or light grease. They say to scrub the bore with a saturated patch 15-20 times and then leave for several hours or overnight. Then run a dry patch through to get off the excess oil. I don't know what you're using but if it was something like the Woodchuck Den's SPL I'd guess you could do the same thing, scrub the bore with a saturated patch before shooting.

Somewhere I heard that regular solvents don't get all the moly out, which is why BoreTech sells their Moly Magic. I don't know if that's a gimmick or not but I use it nonetheless when cleaning.

You're using something called WS2? What is it and is it similar to SPL? I haven't investigated what's available for bore coatings and whether anyone has done any sort of comparisons to see what works better.

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I guess this is not a quick reply but it might help.

I am just a simple country boy, my primary attribute, and also a pretty technically inclined jack of all trades engineer and tinkerer. I'd rather roll my own. The enemy of good enough is better. I have been experimenting with and studying three bullet coatings. Seeing the prices asked for commercial bullet coatings on bullets and for coating kits, I decided that I ought to be able to make my own for a lot less money and set out to do so. I could write a book on this but will try to be brief.

The following is what I think is true but I would sure welcome more correct information if anyone can provide any.

Here are the three coatings I know about, Moly or molybdenum disulfide, WS2 or tungsten disulfide which I understand but am not sure about has been sold under the name of DANZAC, and HBN-S or Hexagonal Boron Nitride. The first two are dark colored and the last is white and is sometimes referred to as white graphite. This may be of importance to people who like clean looking hands. Most of what I have learned has been from technical research on the internet and trial and error in my laboratory which is a closely guarded room in my basement that most of our VHA group would feel very much at home in. I have not tried SPL or studied it, so cannot comment upon it. I know there are more coatings but have no expertise on them. However, I have figured out that several brand names coatings are simply another name for one of the three listed chemical compounds. James Calhoon bullets are coated with something that I like and it is a lot more silver colored than the coatings I have played with and that may be more of a coating on the coating. I infer that those who market coated bullets and bullet coatings per se have some technical secrets which may be nothing more than their brand names on one of the above listed chemicals. In addition, there may be some secret coatings on the coatings. Those second level coatings are apparently, in some cases, just wax of some sort. The purpose of the wax is to make them shinny and pretty and keep your hands clean. In fact, there is some credible criticism that the wax can build up in your bore and cause problems. My experiments with wax coatings is that they can be expensive and that they are more trouble than they are worth. I have tried a variety of car wax, with no good results, and a cake of and powdered Carnauba Wax which worked better but did not pass my test as practical.

I have decided to leave out the wax because it just seems to complicate things. So much for general information.

All of these coatings can be purchased from some chemical company or another over the internet and they all seem to be inordinately expensive. My memory fails me but they are each about $80 a pound. Now a pound of any of any of them ought to suffice for all the needs of all your friends and family and all their cats and dogs, all together for the rest of their lives. In other words, a little bit goes a very long way and the cost per bullet is almost nothing. It is the first purchase that sets you back. Carnauba wax costs a lot too and goes a long way.

The basic tools are:

some kind of plastic container that you can seal and throw inside of a brass cleaner to hold bullets, the chemical coating you want to use, and maybe some steel BBs. A good container is a large vitamin pill bottle or something similar

some sort of sieve to separate the bullets from the BBs and chemical or you may want to use tweezers from your shop which is what I normally do

some clean brass polishing media, such as untreated walnut shells or corn cob, put inside of a second plastic container, to separate excess chemical from the bullets

and then a sieve again to separate the media from the bullets, i bought my sieve from a cooking store for about ten dollars, the deluxe model

I have found if I do this on a large baking pan, it keeps my shop cleaner.


The basic process is:

Wash the manufacturing oils off your bullets in hot water with a small amount of Dawn dish soap. You do not need to use any toxic chemicals or endangered Panther urine to do this. Just wash off the bullets. It is good to keep the bullets slightly hot but it is absolutely not necessary. Some people think heat speeds up this process.

Dry thoroughly by laying them on a towel, except in some cases, a very slight amount of water left on the bullets seems to make the coating go faster, but can also cause too much coating to stick to the bullets, that idea is tricky but seems to work well sometimes

put the bullets in the plastic container, add about 1/4 of a thimble full of chemical, depends on size of container and how full it is, add about as may BBs as bullets by volume, by trial and error you my find the BBs are or are not necessary, seal the lid tight so the chemical does not vibrate out all over your house, and put them in your mechanical brass cleaner for about an hour, look at how well they are coated and use more or less time as needed, be consistent and you will learn this is pretty simple and cut your time down efficiently

separate the bullets from the BBs and chemical and save the BBs and chemical for reuse, again I do this with tweezers

put the bullets into another plastic container with some clean polishing media, shake by hand about 20 times to remove excess chemical, pour through the sieve to separate the bullets from the media, if you shake the container too much go back to the first step and reapply the coating

save the media for reuse, it does not have to be real clean to be useable again

pour the bullets onto a towel and rub around a little to your satisfaction to make them look pretty

If you want to coat them with wax, do it now, you can put them in another clean container, with or without BBs, add a small amount of wax and vibrate them some more. Then I suggest cautiously clean off the excess wax with another plastic container with clean brass polishing media, clean them gently and cautiously or you will take off all the wax---- Again I think this is more pain than gain.

Load them up just a little hotter than a non coated bullet and shoot. The reason for more powder is that because of the coating the friction in the gun will be less and therefore the pressure will be less so you need more pressure to get them up to speed and then you can have more speed than untreated bullets. End goals are higher velocity, less cleaning, longer barrel life.

Issues:

The three chemicals: Moly, WS2 and HBN-S are sometimes referred to as ceramic lubricants. They are all very famous and very commonly used in industry to minimize friction. The main characteristic you want from them is that they do not stick to themselves so you can only logically get about one molecule of chemical thickness on your bullets because more will not stick. Any more is in your road. That is why you only need a very small amount of lubricant to do a whole lot of bullets. It seems to me the coatings are hammered onto the surface of the bullets by impact with each other and the BBs. It seems to me that you just need to guess how much time this takes based upon the size of the bullets and your own vibrator or tumbler. Make a few test loads, keep records, and save time and effort later.

The sulfides in the coatings are supposedly corrosive to your bore in regards to long term storage of your gun in a damp climate. In other words, they react with water to cause corrosion. I live in an arid climate and have decided I do not care. Also, Moly is the most corrosive, WS2 less, and HBN-S the least. Supposedly, from what I have read. What I have read on this did not sound like it was written by a credible scientist. About an equal numbers of people think this is a legitimate concern and think it is nonsense or insignificant. I have decided that for all practical purposes, for me, it is not worth worrying about. I think if you have any water in your bore it will rust whether or not one of these chemicals is present. Just my opinion.

The first two chemicals are a grey black dust and will make your hands dirty. For me, so what. I wash my hands often anyhow. I think I probably get more dirt on my hands when shooting from burned gunpowder and oil etc. Again, waxing the bullets might help.

These three chemicals break down under the high temperatures in your gun. Moly breaks down at a lower temperature, WS2 at slightly higher temperatures, and HBN-S at the highest temperature.

I have to admit that I bought Moly and have never used it because I discovered the other two chemicals and that they are better first. WS2 is wonderful. I have only used the HBN-S a small amount in comparison and am happy with it.

As best I can tell, because of the rust issues, the temperature issues, and the cleanliness issues, Moly is good, WS2 is better, and HBN-S is best.

So that is what I have learned in my laboratory and out in Prairie Dog land, and again, any better information would be appreciated. I have been doing this for several years and plan to coat all of my bullets in the future. There has been no harm to my guns, my health etc. but a lot of Prairie Dogs do not like my bullets.

As far as bore coatings go, I intend to try using the same chemicals wiped somehow into the bore as I will be using to coat the bullets. What bothers me on that is trying to measure how well each thing works. It seems to me I will be able to tell but not be able to measure the difference.

Jon


























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ive been using the gunslik foaming bore cleaner for over 5 years, and i really like it.

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I have used about every bore cleaner out there. The WipeOut works great, I first scrub the bore with Butches then run a dry patch. After that I fill the bore with WipeOut and let it sit over night. Most of the the time I do this twice before the bore is clean. The only draw back is the time it takes to work. As a side note, DO NOT get WipeOut in your eyes!!! I did a while back, OUCH the burning is unreal, the eye was sore for 3 days!!!

Dave

PS:

Nothing beats a little elbow grease!!!



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I've been using Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner along with Wipe Out Accelerator for several years now.  In order to not make a mess get some 1/2" OD X 3/8" ID & 3/8" OD X 1/4" ID tygon tubing at your local hardware store.  Cut about a 6" piece of each size and super glue the smaller into the larger to make a leak proof connection.  Pull your bore guide out of your chamber, assuming you use one, and insert the 1/2" OD tubing into your chamber.  You'll have to radius the lip a bit with a Dremel and heat to form to your chamber but this will allow you to apply the foam without getting all over the place.  Stick the 1/4" ID end of your rig over the nozzle of the Wipe Out and angle your muzzle down into a catch container.  The foam will push neatly through the bore.

 

 



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I use WipeOut. One of my friends had a rifle he decided to sell, wouldn't shoot. I looked at it and the barrel was coated with copper, really bad. We cleaned it up the first time and got most of the copper out and went to the range. The group came down by about half. We cleaned it a couple more times with the WipeOut during shoots and range time and the gun started shooting half inches groups.

I use bore guides so the foam doesn't get into the action. If I have to use it in the field I always have a straw I put into the breach and apply the foam that way. Push the foam out with a patch and run a boar snake through the barrel with a good coating of solvent on it. Works for me.

Will

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I like The foam bore cleaners.Follow the instructions to the letter. Wipe the bore down with oil to prevent rust after using. The foam bore cleaners take out all gunk, dirt,powder residue, copper. ghorne

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I've always been a clean barrel freek.  When I started PD shooting, I would clean my barrels to a copper free state every night in the motel room, stink up the place with amonia and lose a lot of sleep to get my barrels ready for the next shooting day.  I was shooting bare bullets at that time.

I started using foam cleaners to keep the cleaning process working while I was sleeping and, in the morning, I'd push a few patches and take off for the fields.  I think I spent way too much time cleaning and bore foams really helped as they linger in the barrel and keep working where other de coppering solvents lose most of their chemical activity after an hour or so. 

Then I started using moly coated bullets. I found I could shoot 200 rounds thru each gun a day and still maintain reasonable accuracy to the end. But I also found that there were some serious drawbacks to using it.  I saw that the barrels took 10 to 15 rounds every morning to start shooting accurately again and again. Worse, I discovered rust pits under the moly coating in the barrel when I got back home and cleaned down to base metal.  Being an accuracy gunsmith, my business owned a Hawkeye borescope. I would take it with me on PD trips just to monitor my cleaning regimine in each barrel and learn what I could from this.  The problem with the guns not shooting on the sweet spots for 15 rounds was less serious as we were usually  starting out on a new town and those first shots were usually at the dumb ones that were pretty close.

The pitting problem was serious and a couple of chrome moly barrrels were seriously hurt before I figgered out what was causing it. One of my long time customers always shot moly and never cleaned. He did reasonably well on long range varmint matches. He never had pitting because he always treated this barrels with several patches of 3 IN One oil immediately after shooting. I once looked in one of his barrels and the moly had accumulated to the point that it laid in furrows like wind driven snow! Moly attracts moisture and as your barrel cools, it draws cooler air into the bore and it condenses water.  The water migrates under the moly and lays there forming some kind of acid.  Sulfuric comes to mind as moly is molybdenum disulfide.  But, I'm not a chemist and could be way wrong. I do know what rust is and have found it many times under the moly.

Using moly didn't stop the coppering of the barrels. It was still there and needed to be cleaned out periodically. I still think moly is worth using on PD guns if you don't mind missing a few on the first 10 shots.  I never use it on my match rifles any longer as I can't rely on the gun shooting to it's normal P.O.A. until the match is half over.

This is getting pretty long but I will say that I've been using Hex. Boron for a couple of years now and have worked out procedures that make it quite useable.  If anyone is interested, I can expound on that later. It's not perfect but it's the best thing out there right now for coating bullets in my humble opinion. 

 

Tom G.



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I can only echo your statements, foam cleaners are really good. Following the instructions to the letter was great imput. Thanks JHORNE



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